5 Truths about the 5k
Big news, friends! I’m running in the Olympic 5K Trials this weekend! WOOT!
Okay, not really.
What I’m doing on Saturday is running in a 5K in Delaware that—as long as I finish in the top 3 of the women in my age group who have paid $30 to join Delaware Senior Olympics (if there are even three such women)—will qualify me to run the 5K Road Race in the 2019 National Senior Games, in Albuquerque in June.
And no, I don’t live in Delaware, I live in New Jersey, but NJ doesn’t have a qualifying 5K, and Delaware allows out-of-staters. Got all that?
Family “fun” qualifying in Delaware 2014 (from left): me, Mother, brother Chris, sister Leslie, her BF Pat, and in front my Nina, who was then 10, too young to qualify for Senior Olympics!
This is not my dream. It’s my mother’s. She is running her own qualifier in her home state of North Carolina in November. My big sister (who is 69) and I will join her in the Games next June. My mother is 90.
(The National Senior Games holds competitions in 20 sports–including swimming, tennis, golf, track and field, a 5K and 10K road race, and, yes, pickleball. You have to be at least 50 to compete. The oldest competitor is usually in his or her late 90s.)
I realize this makes us sound like we are some kind of rock star athletic family like New York City marathon champ Shalane Flanagan and her mother, Cheryl Bridges, who set the world marathon record back in 1971.
Not exactly.
Mostly what we are is stubborn. We just keep showing up.
We keep showing up! Me, sister Leslie, Mother, and sister’s BF Pat
Mother has been competing in the Senior Games since the 1990s, when she played softball and basketball. She quit those sports in her 70s and 80s when it got too hard to field a team. In the 2017 Games, she took the silver medal for the 85-89 group with a time of 50:24. She is (obviously) fiercely competitive. But she also has the health issues common among a generation that grew up smoking packs of cigarettes and drinking pots of coffee, which will make running a 5K in the Senior Games in Albuquerque at altitude in the heat of June … interesting.
So what are you waiting for?
Here are five important truths—and a few real tips—about running a 5K:
1. If this is your first, you won’t be last.
The beauty of the 5K—especially the local benefit race—is that it attracts all-comers. Yes, there will be whippets on the starting line, whom you’ll never see after the blare of the start horn. Ignore them; they’re a different species. There will also be families with strollers and small children who alternately dash and dawdle. And maybe you will see someone like my mother. Cheer her in, okay?
2. If you show up, you might win …
Your age group or even the race overall! This requires some effort. And I don’t just mean the training. You need to do your research and pick a small race—first year is always good—on a busy fall weekend packed with well-established events. Bonus if it’s raining AND the high school cross-country team is away at their own meet.
Why yes, I do speak from experience. I once won a debut local 5K in which only five other women had entered—and four of them were walkers.
I won! I won! A rainy not-well-attended 5K when Fast Teacher Friend had a cold. This was 2014, which feels like several lifetimes ago.
Real tip: In a half marathon you can use the first few miles to settle into your pace, but not in a 5K, because the race will be over by then! So before a 5K, it’s a good idea to warm up with a mile or two of jogging and even a few striders, if you want to look especially BA.
3. If you want to go fast, you can go fast
All joking aside, the 5K is an awesome way to test your speed (if that’s your thing). My former Runner’s World co-worker Heather Irvine, mom of a 1-year-old, put aside marathons to put laser focus into breaking 20 minutes in a 5K (I know: Makes you want to faint, right?). Her “long runs” became 8-10 miles. She also went to the track at least twice a week. (Faint.) It worked well for her; she clocked 19:46. Wow. That’s a pretty cool stat to have on your running resume.
Of course your time goal can be whatever you want: break 25, 30, 35, 40 minutes. My mother hopes to come in under an hour. (Fingers crossed for good weather and good health come November!)
Real tip: There is (scary) research that says if you aim to run your fastest 5K, you should go out as hard as you think you might maintain and try to hang on.
4. Training is manageable
When our very own Dimity interviewed former elite middle-distance star Ceci St. Geme for a RW cover story, Ceci—a mother of six—talked about how much more manageable it is to train for a 5K than it is for distance events. Ceci still ran 45 miles per week (which is a lot for mortals but less than half of what elite marathoners log), but she didn’t come home Saturday mornings trashed after a long run. She could race nearly every weekend and not have to walk down stairs backward! I was almost convinced!
THIS is the dream! Mother winning the 85-89 age group Gold Medal in the 2015 Games.
5. “The 5K is freaking awesome!” — Lauren Fleshman
For so many runners, the 5K is a gateway drug to longer distances and gets forgotten amid the “glory” of half and full marathons. Lauren Fleshman, former US 5000 meter champion and mom of two, was hilariously condescended to by a casual runner man who did marathons. That’s funny, but only ironically, and she wins because she’s the baddest of BAMRs.
The 5K is worth all of our efforts. It’s fun to try to run fast every now and then.
But if you’re in the 55-59 age group, do me a favor and stay out of Delaware this weekend, okay? Thanks!
Some people love a short and sweet 5K, others think they’re too fast and hard. How about you? Love 5Ks or loathe them?
Podcast #331: Mirinda Carfrae, 3X Ironman Triathlon World Champion (+ New Mom)
Training for My First Marathon: An Introduction to BAMR PAMR
Meet Pam Harris, or BAMRPAMR, who is going to chronicle her first marathon journey over the next few months.
The memory of my middle school gym teacher yelling, “My GRANDMOTHER could run a mile faster than you, Greyson!” is a pretty accurate representation of my early running career. Once I passed the age of mandatory participation in the Presidential Physical Fitness assessment, I did not willingly run a single step until my late twenties.
Blythe, my close friend and fellow high school English teacher, decided that our pants fit more snugly than they should and that the solution was running. We stepped out Blythe’s front door into the sweltering Florida summer sunshine wearing far too much cotton. We sprinted until we thought we were going to die, and then walked until we realized we probably weren’t going to, in fact, die. We stopped frequently to filch a loquat (a sweet, juicy citrus fruit) from a neighbor’s tree or pet a friendly dog.
Once the school year began, we often took our workouts to the high school track, running “the straights” and walking “the curves,” and hoping we wouldn’t run into any of our students. One day, about three months in, we joined a seasoned runner who introduced us to the concept of running well below top speed. Blythe ran her first full mile that day, and I ran my own the next.
I was hooked—for, well, life.
In December 2010, a few months after that physical and mental breakthrough, I found a teaching job in Atlanta, GA, where Erik, my then boyfriend and now husband, lived. He and I ran together in fits and starts: once or twice a week, then nothing for months on end. In 2012, I stopped teaching, started a master’s program in Library and Information Sciences, and got married. Between that time and the birth of my first baby, Amelie, on August 11, 2014, I ran maybe a dozen times.
Six weeks later, the day I was cleared to exercise after the unexpected C-section, I watched the door like a hawk and threw the baby at my husband the second he walked through it. I’d planned to jog slowly until it didn’t feel good, but it kept feeling good! (I know: crazy, right?) So I jogged out for a mile, turned around, and jogged on home, suddenly feeling like more than somebody’s mama.
As the weeks progressed, I found that I could run three, then four, then five miles without stopping. It seemed like time to sign up for my first race, the Atlanta Beltline Eastside 10k, in mid-December of 2014. It was out and back, and therefore totally demoralizing: the faster runners began passing me on their way back before I’d run a fraction of the way out.
Erik cheered me on proudly as I crossed the finish line ahead of only two people, and was baffled by my post-race tears. I didn’t run another step for nearly a year.
In August of 2015, we moved down the road to Decatur. Seeking out friends and accountability, I stumbled across the Decatur, GA Moms Run This Town Facebook page, which proclaimed “No mama left behind!” That sounded promising, so I laced up my shoes and headed out to a Saturday morning group run. I checked out the women in fancy running clothes that actually matched, chatting like old friends. “We run at a really slow pace, like 11-minute miles,” the leader told another new runner, clearly embarrassed.
Slow is 11-minute miles? Gulp. I reminded myself that the group didn’t leave anyone behind and followed with increasing trepidation for about three blocks. I stuttered to a walk, fighting back tears, and prepared to do the walk of shame back to my car.
And then a small miracle happened. A runner far up ahead turned around and jogged back to me. “Hi, I’m Meridith. Do you want to do run/walk intervals?” I didn’t trust myself to talk, so I nodded, and followed along in the wave of Meridith’s conversation. And just like that, a BRF-ship was born.
The Decatur MRTT crew waiting for the 2016 Hot Chocolate 15k to start in balmy 18 degree weather. My BRF Meridith is in the back row, second from the right.
Decatur MRTT loves running races together, and five months later, I once again found myself on the starting line of the Atlanta Beltline Eastside 10k. This time, however, I was surrounded by my team. While I brought up the rear of our own group, I finished solidly mid-pack overall. I felt redeemed, energized, and ready to see what I was capable of. In the post-race afterglow, Meridith mentioned that the Hot Chocolate 15k, two months down the road, gave out hoodies rather than shirts. I was in.
As we began training for the new distance, somebody in the group mentioned the words half marathon, Savanna, and girls’ weekend. I felt strong in my newfound running abilities and my new friendships, and decided I might as well give it a try. I ran the Hot Chocolate and earned my very first medal, not to mention the promised hoodie and a cup of decidedly mediocre cocoa.
I had never felt so accomplished: I’d overcome both my genetics and lifelong disinclination toward running. Not one week later, on my 34th birthday, I stumbled on a rock during a group run and felt my ankle give way. I felt somehow cheated: I put in the work and did not deserve this injury.
When I was still limping two weeks later, I went to see a PT. He explained I had an overuse injury in my ankle, introduced me to dry-needling, prescribed daily strength exercises, and nixed running for two weeks. Two weeks before the race, I was cleared to ease back into running and made the starting line of the Savannah Women’s Half Marathon in April of 2016: six weeks post-injury and (surprise!) five weeks pregnant. Meridith promised to run with me every step of the way to the finish. We alternated between a slow jog and a walk, crossing the finish line at 3:04.
Sidelined by Plantar Fasciitis at 26 weeks pregnant, I went out and bought a road bike that day. This is one of my first rides on the road. Chandani (in yellow) was also pregnant, and Sue, the experienced cyclist of the group, kept us laughing the whole time and taught us how to lower our gears and “doodle up the hills.”
I continued to run throughout the first two trimesters, averaging about three slow runs per week. When the bouncing got to be too much for my bladder, I borrowed a friend’s maternity splint to hold up the belly and continued until plantar fasciitis forced me off my feet and onto a road bike.
After an uneventful pregnancy, Beatrix was born via C-section on November 11, 2016. Once again, I got the green light to begin running six weeks later, so I started off the new year with a run/walk of three miles.
The PT said to take it slowly and listen to my body, which I did. In February of 2016, I ran the Hot Chocolate 5k, feeling great. The next month I upped it to a 10k, where I ran a nine-minute PR, still feeling great. A few weeks later, I was gunning for a sub-30 minute 5k PR at the Atlanta Women’s 5k, running faster than I ever had. I was surely invincible.
Then? Snap.
Seconds after passing the second mile marker, I felt my ankle just go. Turns out that niggling pain I’d been ignoring the past couple weeks was a fibular stress fracture. I limped my way to the finish line, telling off the MC who urged me to “run it in strong.”
To cap it all off, the promised mimosas at the finish line were VIRGIN. Seriously???
I was utterfly defeated. I sucked. I was worthless. I worked harder than anyone and kept getting injured. I texted as much to Christy, a longtime friend and mentor in sport. She convinced me that before throwing in the towel for good, I should give heart-rate training a try, and she sent me a link to the Train Like a Mother homepage.
A high school swim coach and accomplished triathlete, Christy sensed I needed a coach of my own and a program that would teach me how to train at my current level. Two months later, out of the boot and cleared to run, I began training by heart rate on the Amazing plan for the Atlanta Thanksgiving Half Marathon. Because clearly I could not be trusted to listen to my body, I would rely on the objective measure of my heart rate.
I ran SLOWLY (anywhere from 18-24 minute miles) four days a week and completed about 20 minutes of low-resistance and bodyweight strength training six days a week. I crossed the finish line at 3:10:14, six minutes slower than my first race.
I didn’t even care, though, because I had managed to complete the entire training cycle uninjured. I felt so good that I signed up for another round, culminating in the DC Rock ‘N Roll Half Marathon on March 10, 2018. I upped my running to five days a week and kept up the strength training, finishing the race in 2:37:05. My next race? The Cape Cod Half Marathon in mid-October, where I hope to shave at least another 30 minutes off my finishing time.
The finish line of the 3 Taverns 5k in May of 2018: a race I had intended as a PR ended up being a spectacular one-mile race (to date my mile PR at 7:43) with a two-mile cool down. I love this picture because OMG LOOK AT THOSE LEG MUSCLES!!
I’ve learned over the past few years that I have untold potential as a runner and that nothing is impossible with the support of a tribe. This week I begin training for my first full marathon. On February 10, 2019, the eve of my 38th birthday, I will show my middle school gym teacher and, more importantly, myself, that not only can I run one mile, but I can run 26.2 of ’em.
I can’t wait to share this journey with you all!
Cutting Way, Way Back on Running: One Year Out
My orange pal Strava tells me I have run 215 miles in almost nine months in 2018, which is about 24 miles a month—or probably what I used to run in an average week for years (decades?). That was before last year around this time, when with the advice of my doctor, I decided to scale way, way back on my running to eliminate constant back + leg pain, and to preserve my (one precious) body for many more decades.
There are many things I miss about not running 20+ miles on a weekly basis: feeling the sandpaper salt on my cheeks and neck on the post-run ride home; the unexpected places my head would wander at mile 12 or 15; post-run gulping a big glass of chocolate milk, then pouring another round to take up to the shower; planning my routes to avoid—or take on—the hills; feeling legit when I’m talking to somebody like Kara Goucher; the knowledge that I could show up to any town, at any time and find a race, pin on a bib and join my tribe. (Did I ever do that? Not really. But it’s kind of like sushi in NYC at 3 am: it’s oddly comforting to know it’s available.)
Do I miss those things enough to give up the one thing I’ve gained in the year since I scaled way, way back? Um, no.
Because as I battled for months and months with my body and this.one.simple.thing I just wanted it to do, everything around me grew denser and nervier. Strange metaphor, but go with me here: It was like I was living in glass jar. I could see the wide world out there, but physical pain and mental spinning were screwing on the lid so tightly, I wasn’t sure it was ever coming off. Adding to the anxiety? Oxygen supplies were dwindling.
When I scaled way, way back, I figured out that not only does the top of the jar unscrew, I can actually climb out of the jar. And there’s space—glorious physical + mental space!—out here.
That space is worth a full carton of chocolate milk.
I doubt my vertebra have found more room between them or the angry cluster of nerves have a new house in which to live, but these days, as I walk the dog and swim laps in the pool, I have this sense that I am standing taller, stretching out. My anthropomorphized version of this is that they are no longer cowering in fear, wondering when I’m going to launch into a run and start banging away at them again.
I’m no doctor, but hey: I live in this body, and that makes decent sense to me. (The endless glute bridges, clamshells and other PT moves probably help a bit too.)
These days, my selfie post-run smiles, like this one with Jessica after 2.5 miles for #MOMWeekend run, aren’t masking pain.
As for mental space, making a decision is one of the biggest forms of relief going. It’s the waffling that’ll gnaw away at you—you can quote me on that one—and I waffled for over a year. With the pain gone, my brain and patience level have gobs of space that used to be taken up by obsessing over running, wondering when or if I’m coming back, what that will look like, what people will think, when the pain will return, etc.
That doesn’t mean I have made time for 30 minutes of daily meditation practice (I haven’t), or that I don’t fret about when my next workout will be (I do). But the constant, low-grade worry that perched on my shoulder from the moment I woke up until the moment I went to bed—and then resumed the position in the middle of the night when I couldn’t sleep—hasn’t been seen in about a year. Ditto for the endless tears I shed over it. I can still get plenty emotional, but running is no longer the catalyst.
Maybe that’s why I feel like I’m standing up taller.
A familiar serpent shape for most of my runs, which are always in the 3-mile range. (Sometimes I mix it up and go north!)
THE Q + A PART
Practically, what do you do on a weekly basis?
I relish my 30-40 minute runs, which I do about two times a week. I rarely run on pavement. For nearly all of my runs, I drive down to the nearby Highline Canal, a gravel, flat path, and run there. On the days when I get all maybe-you-should-go-longer-Dimity, I remind myself that nothing hurts. That I’m outside, running, in the air, under the sun, looking at the clouds, floating as best as I can on terra firma. And did I mention that nothing hurts?
I am definitely a go-for-it kind of girl, but I’ve gone for it too many times when it comes to running. I’m currently cool with folding my cards before the pot gets too large.
Other cardio: riding a bike (both outside, inside on the trainer, or at the gym on the stationary bike); stepmilling it; and swimming.
I strength train 2ish times a week for 20-30 minutes each. The longest I’ll go is 90 minutes (60 of cardio + 30 of strength), but usually it’s closer to 60-75, and I’m typically working out 5-6 days a week.
Does it feel empty not having a race to train for?
Yes, a little. But it also means the stakes aren’t so high, time- and training-wise.
I don’t have to plan my weekends or even, really, my daily schedule around my workouts. If I want to ride the bike at the gym and hang with Jason Bateman for an episode of “Ozark,” that’s perfectly fine. And since I’m already at the gym, I can do a few push-ups, planks, and one-legged squats and call it good enough.
And that’s one thing I want to emphasize: good enough, turns out, is plenty good. I feel stronger than when I was I was solely focused on running. I feel pretty fit, too.
Is it running-specific fitness? No. Am I ready to hop into a 10K? No. Will I ever run another road half-marathon? No. But 6ish weekly hours of cardio + strength is plenty to make me feel like I haven’t given up gallons of fitness just because I scaled way back on running.
One way to kill time doing planks: Try to get a good self-timer. (I was trying to get a shot of the knot on the back of my tank—I felt so stylish!—but the angle wasn’t working for me.)
How do you motivate?
Pretty much the same way I did when I was training for something. For me, the physical benefits of exercise have always been outweighed by the mental. I sweat regularly for mental balance and the sake of my family, my coworkers, my friends, pretty much everybody who comes in contact with me.
Aren’t you envious of other runners?
Of course. When I see a runner, I wonder where they came from, how far they’ve gone, if they’re training for something. I’m especially envious of runners who look like they’re running relatively easily. But looks can be deceiving—and for all I know, that person’s hip/knee/ankle could be barking at them.
So what are you going to do next?
I truly don’t know. Happily taking suggestions for adventures or races that don’t bulk up on running. I’m thinking about maybe entering a sprint triathlon next spring, but that’s about as far as I’ve gotten.
The other day (while riding the stationary bike at the gym), I was watching Eat.Race.Win., a documentary about the 2018 Tour de France and a chef for an Australian cycling team. In one scene, the team director, back in the car, was coaxing his rider to push to the end and potentially win a stage. “Your limit,” he yelled, “Go to your limit!”
I got a little wistful: Aside from some harsh words during SwimRun, my limit and I, formerly BFFs, don’t really chat much these days. But now I feel like there’s plenty of time—and space—to spend some quality, (nearly) pain-free time together in the next few years.
Do you have space in your running these days?
If so, how did you find or create it?
What a Motherlode of Miles!
Thank you all for showing up and adding to our first-ever Motherlode of Miles this weekend! “Friends were made, coffee was had, mom talk was wonderful!,” reports #motherrunner Kelsey, who hosted a run in the mitten state. “There may be more mom runs in Marquette Michigan … we are talking about doing it monthly,”
The DIY video below focuses on celebrating—and representing—the miles run by you all on a September weekend in 2018; some are group runs, some are runs with BRFs (best running friends), some are races, some are solo miles.
Full disclosure: We didn’t add up all the cumulative miles. But we don’t really have to, because no matter the pace or the total distance, we know this much to be true: Every mile makes some slice of you stronger—and every run, no matter how sucky it may feel in the moment, can leave a smile on your face.
Great work, BAMR team!
xo—Dimity + Sarah
#330: Find Your Athletic “Happy Place”
Here is the transcription of this episode:
Sarah: Welcome back to the show, Justin.
Justin: Oh, thanks for having me back.
Sarah: Yeah.
Amanda: So Justin, I think you need to tell us a little bit about that acceptance into Boston, and give a little background because I know what your situation was last year. So, go ahead and tell us a little bit about this.
Justin: Yeah. So I ran Boston in 2017 for the first time and it’s such an amazing experience. Just working to get there and doing all the training to qualify in and of itself was just an incredible experience. And then to be there that weekend, it’s such a celebration of the human spirit and of all the people that have worked so hard to get there. It was great and I knew at that time that I wanted to make it back. So, I ran a re-qualifying race later in 2017 and I had a three minute and 17 second cushion for my qualifying time. And then when the announcement came in that the cutoff was going to be 3:23, I missed a bit by six seconds. So definitely a little bit of disappointment there. But it also fueled this drive to keep working and stay after it and keep training. I ran another race this June and re-qualified and had plenty of cushion this time to be able to register week one and got my acceptance in one day.
Sarah: Wow. Okay. So then you have to tell, come on, a reveal, how much did you qualify by?
Justin: So I had eight minutes and two seconds was my official margin of time.
Sarah: Boom.
Amanda: Very nice.
Sarah: Very nice. Boom.
Amanda: Yeah. No sweating this time.
Justin: No, but it looks like there’s a lot of people on the line. It looks like the cutoff this year is going to be quite high based on everything that they’re [inaudible 00:01:52].
Sarah: Oh, do tell. What did you hear?
Justin: Well they said they had more registering applicants in week one than they’ve ever had before. And their language is they’re only going to accept a small percentage of week two qualifiers. So it’s probably going to be well above what it was last year.
Sarah: Oh my gosh. See, because I really think those things swing kind of cyclical, so that people then hear, “Oh you don’t just have to make the qualifying time. You have to kind of over qualify.” So I would think maybe it sends some people being like, “Oh, I’m not going to… It’s out of my grasp.” But it sounds like it made people hungrier.
Justin: Right.
Amanda: That’s what I was just going to say and ask Justin. So to my mind, I think what happens is you start getting those new numbers in your head, and you’re going to be able to make that next step. I think you can run to the goal, basically. So I guess what I’m getting after that it’s a mental thing. I don’t know, Justin, you can qualify to steam here.
Justin: Well, I think you’re right Amanda. I think it’s… Not only are you number’s chasing your qualifying standard, but I think you have to then take an additional five minutes to really feel comfortable. So, for me right now it’s 3:10, so I have to be under, in my opinion, 3:05 to feel comfortable that I have a chance and it’s the squeakers who qualify by five minutes or less that are the ones that are going to be getting squeezed out of this.
Sarah: I know, but it’s also kind of sad that now a squeaker someone who by five minutes, because to me, like if I qualified by five minutes, I’d think I was champion of the world.
Justin: Yeah, right.
Sarah: So it used to be… I don’t know, Tish Hamilton, the self-described squeaker. I mean, we’re talking 30 seconds, 45 seconds, something like that. And so, wow, definition of squeaker is expanding. All right, so, well, Justin, when I first floated the idea of an episode about athletic happy places, what did you think of that idea? I’m I [inaudible 00:03:59] and what are we doing?
Justin: Well, I think it makes so much sense because as adult athletes, I think we’re drawn to something that provides connection. And it’s not just about performance. It’s not just about what numbers you’re chasing on your watch or what your PR is, it’s none of that. It’s about this connection to self and connection to sport and community and to all these things that you were just talking about. And so I think that makes a lot of sense, it’s that connection that really is the happy place, I think for most of us.
Sarah: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Because, yeah, I was intrigued that it definitely doesn’t have to be a literal place. It isn’t Wildwood trail from mile 20 to 22 or Klineline pond in Vancouver, Washington. It can be a mindset, it can be who you run with. That sort of thing.
Justin: Yeah, exactly right. I mean, when I think about it, I think you can break happy place down to being an internal happy place, or an external happy place, and there being variables for both. I think on the internal side there’s on one level some connection to yourself. And whether that’s just that it feels really good to move. I really appreciate the ability to get out there and to feel my body in space. There’s some connection to self or stress reduction, whatever that may be. But there’s also, for me, I find a lot of personal connection just to effort level knowing that, that’s a variable that you can play with. Some days you can take it nice and easy and that feels really good. Some days when it’s uncomfortable, you have a decision to make, whether you push it, and kind of lean into that discomfort or not. And when you come out on the other side of that, it’s that connection to pushing through a hard effort that I think is really rewarding in this sport.
Sarah: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So then we have to ask what your athletic happy place Justin?
Justin: Yeah. Absolutely, it’s a great question. I think on the internal side it’s definitely those harder effort days, where I know I need to show up and do the work knowing that it’s not easy, but I always feel better on the backside of that. And it’s like, I think about Elliot Kipchoge this weekend who broke the world marathon record, world record. And it shows you what you’re capable of and that connection to being anti-fragile, like you are strong and you are capable, these are the moments in our lives where we get to really chase that down and figure that out.
Amanda: Nice. Well, which kind of leads into my next question, which is, why is it useful to have an athletic happy place? I mean, if it’s an actual physical place, is there a benefit for working out there if you’re struggling a little bit, or feeling burned out? Are there restorative powers to having sort of a happy/safe place?
Justin: For sure. I mean, I think the first thing that comes to mind is like, adulting sucks sometimes, I mean it’s hard and it’s messy and it’s not always that clamorous or that much fun. And so I think having something in our lives that connects us to happy a place is foundationally important to our wellbeing and to our relationships. And for athletes, for runners, this is where we connect to that. And that could be an internal place or like you’re saying, and that I think there’s external happy places as well. And that for me, you can slice that into either being sort of a location, like a physical place, probably not the treadmill, although I want to weigh in on that Twitter conversation. But there’s location for all of us where we feel really connected. I think that’s really important. And the other piece is community. And that can be either thinking about, like Sarah, you’re talking about your dad, like connection to people in the past or community now, friends, family, running groups, people that we connect to. I think those are really important factors as well.
Sarah: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So hearkening back to the water a little bit, when I asked [inaudible 00:08:05] on Facebook to share their athletic happy place, I was amazed how many women wrote similar responses along the lines of, “On a lakeside trail or near the ocean.” So, Dr. Ross, I realized that this might not be your area of specialty, but is there something about the positive ions near water that affect our mood? Because I definitely know as a Pisces there is for me.
Justin: Yeah, absolutely. I think we tend to be drawn, human beings, to two places. One is water, and the other is to forests. I know more about forest bathing concept, which has been studied really heavily in Japan. Like, that’s an active thing that they do. They take people into the forest and then researchers of course go in and screw it all up by measuring data on these people. But they show reduction in all kinds of things. It physically changes our health, and I think water does the exact same thing. We’re drawn to it and we’re mesmerized by it and we feel better when we’re in it or around it.
Amanda: Makes Sense.
Sarah: Justin, I also have to say, I love you have a very expansive, descriptive vocabulary. Just listening to you talk, you get exactly the right word for… I don’t know. It’s very intoxicating to listen to you talk.
Justin: Oh, you’re too kind.
Amanda: Yeah. So, I don’t know, Sarah, you mentioned earlier the amusement park ride and needing to have a happy place. Is that legitimate, Justin, also, that it’s good to have that mental happy place?
Justin: Oh, yeah. I think absolutely right. It can help us deal with discomfort or anxiety, and you can draw upon that. If you ask everybody right now listening to close your eyes and to just spend a few moments visualizing that physical happy place in your life, whether that’s in the water or in the forest or on the trail, it doesn’t take long until you can sort of picture yourself and actually feel yourself there. And in moments of great distress in life, that can be a profound thing to call upon to help you get through it.
Sarah: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amanda: Nice.
Sarah: So chances are good probably that we don’t have all that many listeners who like, mile 22 of Chicago marathon, or the midway point of even their local half marathon is their happy place. So how can people summon up the powers of their happy place while in a race setting?
Justin: Yeah. See, and maybe it could be though, maybe mile 22 of a marathon, it’s not feeling good if you’re doing things correctly. And so that could be actually in a weird way, your happy place because it’s that connection to putting yourself in an uncomfortable position to see what you’re capable of. And again, I think there are so many places in life right now where we’re just over caffeinated and over connected to the Internet and we have all our needs met at the click of a button. And it’s through this process of sport where it’s hard that maybe that is somebody’s happy place. At the same time if it really is bleeding itself into distress or discomfort, there are lots of variables you can play with mentally and visually to help you cope with and deal with those experiences.
Sarah: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And are there any physical things that like… Can you teach yourself? Like, I think about people who touch their thumb to the tip of their forefinger, then their middle finger, then their ring finger, pinky, and doing that sort of… I don’t know what those are called. That type of little, not drill, but…
Justin: Yeah. I think that’s called the emotional freedom technique. Is that what you’re thinking of? There’s something like that.
Sarah: Do you think you could make a little connection when I do that I… I don’t know, maybe if you do that when you’re running on a trail or you tap the side of your cheek or something like that. When you’re on the trail, do you think there’s a way that you can kind of summon up, like have a physical way to summon up that mental thing?
Justin: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there’s all kinds of ways to do it. You could do it just mentally by thinking about it. You can do it visually by screening for something in your environment. You can do it physically too. I mean the physical can be a cue for that as well, whether that’s like a tapping or a touching or certain part of your body that you can access, your nose, your fingers, whatever it may be to help you connect better to that place.
Sarah: Physical cues. That’s the type of… That’s the phrase I was looking for. So I would pay you the big money Dr. Ross.
Amanda: It’s not the finger touch method. Is that what we are talking about?
Justin: The finger touch method. You know what though, we could develop that. I think we developed a finger touch method [crosstalk 00:13:05]-
Sarah: We’re going to have a retreat about it next year and I will talk about it at the end of the podcast.
Justin: That’s [inaudible 00:13:10]. [inaudible 00:13:10] the next presentation.
Sarah: Yes. Here’s the URL for it. So, if somebody doesn’t have a happy place like me on the roundup at Oaks Park, how do you suggest they try to find one, and how to go about doing that?
Justin: My hunch is that people may say that they don’t have one, but it won’t take long for them to sort of dig in on earth that there is a place that they connect to. And maybe it’s shifting the language a little bit instead of seeking a happy place. It’s realizing what they connect to, whether that’s those internal variables or those external variables. There is going to be something that they’re connected to that they can then create or mold into this happy place for them.
Sarah: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay. It doesn’t lend for as good song though, happy place that… Well, awesome. Well, Justin, it’s always a delight to talk to you and your expansive descriptive vocabulary. And I know I speak for Amanda when I say that we look forward to hanging out with you in Cape Cod next month.
Justin: Yeah. It’s going to be a blast. I can’t wait.
Sarah: Good, good. Alrighty, and congrats again on Boston.
Justin: Oh, thank you so much.
Sarah: All right. Now we’re going to talk to two mother runners about their athletic happy places, which I realized now I should say maybe their connections or something like that. But, for the first mom, Michelle San Antonio of Wakefield, Rhode Island, it’s not a place but a mindset. A mom of three sons, Michelle is qualified for and run the Boston Marathon times. Michelle, welcome to the podcast.
Michelle: Thank you. Very happy to talk with you all.
Amanda: So Michelle, tell us about how you got started running. I think you’ve been running about a decade now?
Michelle: Yeah, around that. I ran a little bit before I had my kids but didn’t really get into it until after my second was born, that’s when I started racing. And once I started racing is when I really kinda got hooked. So that was around 2006, 2007.
Amanda: All right. And I’m sorry, go ahead. [inaudible 00:15:29]…
Michelle: No, nope. That pretty much what I’ve… That’s when I really started taking it seriously and it became sort of part of my identity. And I think that’s really why I was so hooked on it at that point is because I was a new mom and I was looking for an identity other than being a mom.
Amanda: Yeah. I think a lot of people can relate to that.
Michelle: Yeah.
Sarah: Exactly.
Amanda: And I think you became pretty speedy pretty quickly because you be cued after being a runner for just a couple of years. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about that?
Michelle: Yeah, yeah. I ran my first marathon in 2008 and that was not particularly speedy. For my first marathon, I ran a 4:12, which is certainly very respectable. I was surprised that I ran as fast as I did. And I think I started running a lot of shorter races too. And Yeah, my times were dropping pretty rapidly. I think, some of it was just beginner’s luck and also just say, I was new to the sport, so it was easy to see improvements pretty quickly, whereas as I got into it later on it got harder and harder. And I started setting those bigger goals. But I qualified for Boston at my second marathon, but it was a few years later, so I had a few years off in between there to really work on my times at shorter distances.
Sarah: But did you have your third son in there in between the first and second marathon or no?
Michelle: I did, yes.
Sarah: Yeah, so there was that time out of running.
Michelle: Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I did run during that pregnancy, but of course, it was not speedy at that time. But I got into it pretty quickly after I had him. I got right back into it and… Yeah. And really, I just took off from like 2011 to 2013, which is when I ran Boston. That was kind of when I was really driven. It was all about what’s the next goal, what’s the next PR I’m going to go after. And I was racing constantly. Thank God I have a supportive husband to put up with me. “I’m running 5k this weekend and a half marathon next weekend.” So, it just… I don’t want to say it was all consuming because it was fun and I really enjoyed it, but it definitely was a huge part of my life and who I was and I really took off with it at that point. Yeah.
Sarah: Mm-hmm (affirmative). But would you also say that it may be… So you haven’t been a runner for… Because Amanda and I have been riding for decades, so you seem you’re a newbie compared to us, but it seems to me you’ve had more than your fair share of injuries. Would you say that’s accurate? And do you think that maybe part of it is because of all the racing or no? What’s your thinking?
Michelle: Oh, absolutely, without a doubt. Yeah, [crosstalk 00:18:41]-
Sarah: If you hadn’t thought of that one, psst.
Michelle: Yes, yes, yes. Because I was so driven, I just didn’t want to accept that maybe I shouldn’t race so much. Maybe I shouldn’t do another marathon this year. I definitely have had a lot of injuries and I do think some people are more injury prone than others and I think that’s a part of it. But yeah, I mean, I pushed myself and there were absolutely times where I did more than I should have. So I will happily admit that.
Amanda: I mean, I think that’s a very common, I don’t know if mistake is the right word, but just a common experience, I think for a lot of people, you get into it, you’re enjoying it so much and it becomes, like you said, so consuming and it can definitely lead to a cycle of injuries. But would you say then… It sounds like you’re maybe in a different place now. So when we talk about happy places and yours being racing, I mean, would you say that that’s still the case or would you say that you’re running happy place has maybe evolved?
Michelle: It’s definitely evolved. I ran Boston 2013, I Ran Boston 2014, and I still raced after that and I did do a couple of other marathons. I think for a few years after that, I want to say from like 2015 maybe up until even last year, I still kind of had that sense that like I wanted to keep going after those PRs and I wanted to keep pushing myself and racing. But I don’t know that it was even a conscious decision, but I feel like it’s just sort of tapered, which is a good running word to use. I don’t know, it’s just been a gradual evolution where I’m not racing as much as I used to. And not entirely because of injury. I have had a couple minor injuries here and there, but I just feel like it’s…
Michelle: What used to drive me was always looking forward. What race is on my schedule next? What training plan am I going to use? What time am I going to go after? I was always happy to finish a race and if I did well, I was excited, I celebrated, but it was kind of fleeting because I was always so busy looking to what was coming up next. Whereas I feel like I still have tenuous goals in mind, but it’s more like, I’m just happy I’m doing what I’m doing and I’m running a few times a week. And I just feel like where I am at the moment is enough and I’m not driven by where I’m going to be in the future. So I feel like I don’t sort of have that driving force behind my running that’s motivating me so much. The running is motivation enough now.
Michelle: And I think three years ago I could not ever have said that and I could not ever have imagined feeling that way. So it’s kind of weird how it’s just sort of crept up on me, but it’s… I don’t know entirely what to attribute it to. I’m certainly 10 years older than I was when I ran my first marathon. And age absolutely has something to do with that I think I can’t go out and run 20 miles at an eight minute pace and then come home and entertain my kids all afternoon. Like I just don’t have the energy for it anymore. So part of it is just the reality of my life. In some ways I feel like my kids, although they’re teenagers now and they don’t require quite the hands on work that they used to, they still require a lot and it’s sort of the emotional stuff they require that’s more draining than the physical stuff was.
Amanda: Yes, yes, we understand that.
Michelle: Yeah. So I think some of those is just the realities of my life. That my life has changed, so my running has changed and I am grateful that I’m okay with that. Because I think when I was sort of in that timeframe where it was all about the PRs and the goals and what race is next, I would’ve had a hard time accepting that I couldn’t do all those things. But now I’ve just kind of grown into it and maybe I will not ever get a marathon PR and that’s okay because life goes on.
Amanda: Yeah, yeah.
Sarah: It’s so funny because I remember, and thank you for sharing, I was nodding head vigorously as you were saying so much of that. And then I remembered that I was at a neighborhood party a couple of years ago and I met this woman who used to be a runner and was now a walker and she’d had lots of races and really was very passionate about it. And yet she seemed so okay with being a walker. And I just remember looking at her and thinking, “Oh my gosh, if you took a pill to get to that place that you’re at now, like can I get a prescription to that too?” And that you do realize though that it is gradual and we’re not asking you 37 year old Michelle to suddenly jump into the mindset of 47 year old Michelle. And it’s the same thing like, we get so many questions for [inaudible 00:24:30] answers about that same thing. Like how do I let go of that feeling? You don’t have to let go of it all in one fell swoop and let fall to the ground. It’s more like grains of sand through your hand.
Michelle: Yeah. And I’ll still go out there. I mean, I will run races sometimes. I don’t race as much, but I still go out and give it my all and my all just isn’t quite what it used to be. And again, I have definitely learned to accept that and I will still race and I’ll still… Hey, who knows, maybe I will still go out and get a PR at some distance, but it’s not the only motivation I have anymore. So, whichever is fine and freeing.
Amanda: Yeah, I was just going to say, I think it’s very freeing and I also find being in this place, which I call kind of like the other side, is just a more enjoyable place to be too, I think. Like, you just enjoy the process of running more than when the process of running has to equate to a goal.
Michelle: Yeah, yeah. And I think, like I mentioned at the beginning is I’m not searching for like an identity as an athlete and a competitor anymore. I kind of know who I am now and that’s part of me, but that’s not who I am entirely. So, yeah. Yeah. It’s excellent. It’s excellent.
Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michelle: Yeah. It’s good to be in a happy place.
Amanda: It is. It is for sure. For sure.
Sarah: Oh my goodness. So I mean, what is on your race calendar then? It always seemed to me like you probably were like a year out, like yes, I’m going to do this race in October and that one in November, that sort of thing.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. I definitely used to be. I used to have months in advance planned out. I honestly have absolutely nothing on a race calendar right now. Nothing. Not a single thing.
Sarah: Wow.
Michelle: Nope. I have not signed up for a race in a long time. The last race I did was a local 5k in January. So, yeah, I don’t know, I might do a local race at some point, but I also have gotten burned many times by signing up for races in advanced and getting injured, not being able to race. So I’ve kind of backed off of doing that a little bit. And I think right now I’d rather just kind of jump into something when I feel like it, and no big goals. I kind of feel like I still would like to run another marathon someday, but I’m okay if I don’t too. It’s just sort of, it’s out there. Maybe I will, maybe I won’t.
Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Do you find, and I would address this question maybe to both of you, that do you feel that also sometimes it’s somehow that you can get right with it, with that this new attitude, this new happy place, but sometimes it takes a while for the rest of your personal community to catch up with you so that you can just remember feeling a lot of, “Oh, what race are you doing next? What time are you going in for all this stuff?” And I don’t know, like you almost need to… I guess that’s what Facebook is for. I was going to say put out a memo of like, “Hey, I’m not a marathon runner anymore.
Amanda: I definitely have that with my running group because we have all mellowed, and we are all racing less than we ever used to. But there are still some in our group who still like to get a little competitive and train specifically for specific events. And just the other day, one of my friends was talking about this very low key local marathon that’s in September every year. She ran part of it the other day, just as a training run. She’s like, “Oh, we should all do that next year,” and I said, “No, it just holds no appeal to me. I think I’m done with road marathons.” So yes, I think it is an adjustment for everyone, but to remember that this is where you are now and be okay with that. Yeah.
Sarah: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. How about you Michelle? What did you find effective?
Michelle: Yeah, I’ve found that most of my friends are kind of in the same boat as I am. So, for various reasons certain people have different reasons for kind of slowing down and not doing as much racing. But I feel like in some ways we’re all kind of going through it together. So, it’s actually been kind of nice that I don’t feel left out because all my other friends are doing this race this weekend and I can’t go. It could be because I think that would be hard if they were all still super ultra competitive and getting out there all the time, but they’re not. So it’s been actually kind of nice. I think it’s made it even more cohesive for us that we’re all kind of like, “Yeah, maybe we’ll do that half marathon and take a weekend away.” But that’s sort of how we look at it now as opposed to, “Oh, maybe you could get an age group prize at this race.” It’s just… Yeah. Everyone’s attitude seems to have shifted a little bit.
Sarah: All right. So since you don’t have an athletic happy place, that’s a place per se. Michelle, do you have a happy place that’s not athletic? Because I have to say from your beautiful Instagram feed, I would a wager a bet, it’s at the beach.
Michelle: It’s the beach. It has to be the beach. Absolutely, with my kids or without my kids, in summer or winter, it’s the beach for sure. Yes. We’re very lucky that we live 10 minutes from probably one of the most beautiful beaches in Rhode Island. So we take full advantage of it. It’s so nice.
Sarah: Yeah. It is nice. It is nice. You need to come out and see the beaches of the West Coast in Oregon. Our deep, deep beaches in the way the old growth forests meet the beach. It’s enchanting as well, so you need to…
Michelle: It sounds stunning, yeah.
Sarah: Yeah, yeah. But I just love seeing all your pictures and I also just really admire how still involved you are with taking your kids to experiences.
Michelle: Oh, thank you.
Sarah: Like the way you were like, “Oh, I’m going to take the kids in one last time to Boston before school starts.” And I think it’s just kind of easy once kids get to be a certain age to just be like, “Yeah, do whatever. Like you’re not bothering me.”
Michelle: Yeah. And they are resisting to some degree now especially the oldest is almost 15. And there are times I’ll say we’re going to do something and he just kind of groans. Sometimes I’ll let him take a pass, but more often I try to drag him along because he usually ends up having fun. It’s just he kind of feels like, “I shouldn’t be doing this. I shouldn’t be hanging out with my family.”
Sarah: Yeah, yeah.
Michelle: So, yeah, I’m trying to hold onto a little longer because I know I don’t have much time left.
Sarah: Well, from your Instagram feed it certainly looks like there’s a lot of athletic… Sorry, there’s a lot of happy places that you all are going and experiencing together. So I really applaud and admire that.
Michelle: Thank you. Yeah, we have some fun.
Sarah: Good deal. All right, well thanks Michelle. Take care and enjoy that race free calendar you’re staring down.
Michelle: Thank you. Thank you. I will.
Amanda: Bye, Michelle.
Michelle: All right. Nice to talk to you both. Thanks.
Sarah: You too. Bye Bye.
Amanda: Bye Bye.
Sarah: Last but not least, our final guest is Cassi Dodd. Mom of three and soon to be a grandmother of twin babies, who lives in Walkersville, Maryland. Welcome Cassi.
Cassi: Hi.
Sarah: Hey there. Have to get twin babies you said coming in November or December?
Cassi: December. It’s going to be fun.
Sarah: Oh my. And do you know the gender of the babies?
Cassi: It’s going to be baby twin girls. So, future runners, future girl runners.
Amanda: Aww.
Sarah: No pressure, no pressure.
Amanda: Are they local to you so you’ll get to see them a lot or they’re not?
Cassi: They’re just north of us in Pennsylvania, so it’s a short drive away.
Amanda: Excellent. Very nice. Very nice. So you’re a fellow Maryland runner. How did you first get started in running?
Cassi: Oddly enough, I would have to give credit to another Mother Runner. And my husband and I had a new year’s resolution, we joined the [inaudible 00:33:07]. We were just going to work out walking around the weight machines, walking on the treadmill. But they also had a magazine rack by the treadmills. And one day somebody had left the first Mother Runner book there.
Sarah: No Way? How could they part with it? Oh my goodness, that’s heresy.
Cassi: I know.
Amanda: I’m sure they forgot it.
Sarah: Oh, yeah.
Cassi: Maybe they enjoyed it so much they wanted someone else to discover the joys of running that I just picked it up and started reading it and I said, “I think I might try training for a 5k.”
Sarah: Nice.
Cassi: It just went over to the dark side, running [inaudible 00:33:43] all the way.
Sarah: So was that 2010, 2011 while [inaudible 00:33:48]?
Cassi: Probably six years ago. So in 2012, 2012 probably when I found it.
Sarah: Okay. All right. Okay. So when I asked folks on Twitter to share their athletic happy place, you said it’s trails, and you wrote, “Some are tried and true, lovely for location, stress release and scenery.” So is there one trail or perhaps even one particular spot on a trail that for you, you’re like, “Yeah, that’s my happy place,” or is it just trails in general?
Cassi: I would probably have to say trails in general. There’s no dream trail. Part of the fun is they’re all a challenge in their own different way, and they all offer their own unique beauty. So just in general.
Amanda: Yeah, I’m familiar with where she is and what the trails are out there. I consider this part of the country, our trails are I think fairly technical compared to other areas. We’ve got our share of rocks and roots and ruts and things on the path. Would you say that you really like… Is that your happy place, the more technical trail, or do you like a nice buffed smooth trail? Which one is your preference?
Cassi: I would still consider myself pretty much a baby trail runner. Over the course of the summer, I’ve come to appreciate the technicality of our area in a way that previously I kind of thought that’s for crazy people. They’re insane.
Sarah: So talk us through that a little bit more. I mean, what made you change your mind about that and how did you become more proficient on the trails?
Cassi: I love both road and trail running, but on the road I have traffic, there’s everything going on in the neighborhood. I could be listening to music and of course The Mother Runner podcast. But the trail makes me unplug and focus on what I’m doing. I have to be there in the moment. I really have to be in the step because the more technical it is the more I have to be there, one foot in front of the other. I can’t look 20 feet ahead of me because I could trip and fall. So I really have to focus on what I’m doing. And at the same time just kind of gives you a moment to process and you just kind of [inaudible 00:36:12] because you’re trying not to get injured, but at the same time you’re just unplugged. You’re out in nature, you’re hearing everything going on around you in nature. It’s quiet. It can be a bit spiritual if you haven’t fallen on your face or seen a snake.
Amanda: Oh, that’s funny. I agree. I agree. And so, are you on the trails a lot more than the roads these days? What for you, you kind of addressed this, why the trail is your happy place versus the road. So do you tend to stay more to the trails now, now that you’ve kind of gotten more into it lately?
Cassi: I do now. I spent the summer most of the time on the trails and that’s going to win out over road most of the time if I’m able to get up there. I do prefer to make sure that I have somebody I know around me because safety is a concern. But if I had the choice today or any day of the week to go on trails versus road, I would always choose trail.
Sarah: It’s not like you just started concentrating and became good at trail, or would you say that, were there other techniques that you use to get more comfortable and proficient on the trail?
Cassi: I would say that we do have some amazing trail runners within the area, and they are always willing to help you if you have questions. They post also a lot online that they’re just meeting. They will let you ask anything you want, be in their ear, few tips on form, but also time on trail just does improve your step. It makes more confidence, the more you do it the better you do get.
Sarah: So what type of questions did you ask people or if someone else asks a question, and the answer really kind of clicked, what are some of the things that made a difference for you?
Cassi: Mostly it started with form. Like how in the world do you go up hill? There’s a whole different up hill on trail than there is on the road. They’re both hard but then you add trees and rocks and just extreme crazy elevation. There’s the unevenness of it. One trail runner told me to imagine that I had a helium balloon attached to my belly button, kind of holding me up and forward so that I didn’t hunch over, things like that. Pick up your feet mantra, pick up your feet, pick up your feet. Because if you don’t, you’re really going to do some damage to yourself when you hit… I always say the roots reached out and they attacked me. They attack rocks on the trail [inaudible 00:39:07]. Like, they got me.
Cassi: Then they have great tips on fueling because you can’t go by mileage, because you could take a whole lot longer in terms of time to cover a mile than on the road. So when to fuel, what to look for, because some stretches of trail you might not need to fuel as often, whereas other stretches, you really need to watch what you’re taking in for hydration or calorie wise. And we’re very lucky to have experienced trail runners in the area that I can always turn to and ask questions.
Sarah: So going back to the idea of the trail being your happy place. So when you’re like stressed or overwhelmed in real life, do you ever conjure up a mental picture of a trail in an attempt to just chillax and calm down a little bit?
Cassi: Well, I don’t have a particular trail, but I could say that this summer we had a lot of rain. Some of the relaxing, calming images that come to mind when you ask that question are the rain caused a lot more water crossings this summer, and it would literally be breathtaking. You would have to stop and just say, “This is just wild. Look what nature has done,” and just get your feet wet sometimes up to your knees and just go through it and have fun like a kid. And it was just relaxing and de-stressing. And when I think about… I sometimes wish I just need to go back there and just kind of lay back, chill.
Amanda: Wade through some water.
Cassi: Yes. You can. [inaudible 00:40:56] again.
Sarah: Nice. Nice.
Amanda: So I guess your husband’s [inaudible 00:41:02] runner and one of your daughters is as well. Do you trail run with them? And does that allow you to get that kind of happy place sensation, or just having someone around you making you less aware of the surroundings and maybe not quite as zen of an experience?
Cassi: It’s not as zen of an experience, but it is still quite rewarding going with my daughter. As we like to say when we ran a lot of times we’re able to share things we wouldn’t otherwise in real life. That’s a really wonderful time that we were able to share. She’s not currently running because she’s the one expecting the twins. But I have shared a lot of time on trail with her even when she has dragged me out there, and I didn’t want to go and just came back, and it was just like, “That was the best 10 miles.” We talked about anything and everything and really connected. With my husband, he’s a challenge because he’s the one who sees me on the tough times when I’m having a hard time. And he’s the one who’s like, “You can do this, you can keep running, you can go up this hill. Come on, let’s go.” And that’s when we might have some intense discussion.
Amanda: I like how you put that.
Cassi: But we’re still married and we still do trail.
Sarah: Oh, my goodness. So do you have a happy place that’s not athletic or no?.
Cassi: I love to garden.
Sarah: Oh yeah.
Cassi: Yeah. I really love to garden, and we have chickens. We like to sometimes just sit out there and watching the chickens. We call it chicken TV. Yeah, I’m a bit of a homebody, so I would say I like to petter around the house, petter in the garden, read on the porch, that kind of thing.
Sarah: Oh, I’m a big, big reader on the porch and lately I’ve retaken up needle pointing on the porch. So I’m right there with you.
Cassi: Porch time is a good time.
Sarah: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Exactly. Exactly. Are you a trail racer as well as runner?
Cassi: I would not say anything that I have participated in with race and the title, wasn’t race for me.
Amanda: You didn’t happen to do the River Valley run races at all by chance?
Cassi: I did not. I recently did Maryland heat at the [inaudible 00:43:33].
Amanda: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah: And what was the distance on that?
Cassi: I did the 25k distance. But just about 16. My friend Sibel and I, we got lost, so we did 17.
Sarah: Oh boy.
Cassi: Yeah. Extra time. Renamed all the trails.
Amanda: Well those are my stomping grounds right there, so that’s cool. I’m glad to hear you were out here. Yeah.
Cassi: Cool.
Sarah: Nice. Nice. Well, we wish you many happy miles on the trails Cassi. It was good talking with you.
Cassi: Thank you.
Sarah: Thanks. Bye bye.
Amanda: Bye bye.
Cassi: Bye.