Here is a transcription of the interview:
Sarah: Shalene, thank you So, much for having us over to your lovely house to record the podcast.
Shalene: Well, thank you for coming here. It's nice and hot, but yeah, thank you for being here.
Sarah: Okay. So, let's start by getting a little bit personal, if that's okay. We know that you and your husband had some foster children last year when you were training for New York and I just read in the New York Times that you two are looking to adopt a child. I mean, it would seem like that's adding ... both those things add a lot to your training plate and your life plate, So, how are you ... You're the mother runner, you know?
Shalene: Yeah. So, with Brianna and Kiana, we were contacted right before the Rio Olympics that they needed help and housing for their senior year at Lincoln High,-
Shalene: ... So, they actually moved in while I was actually in Rio. My husband took them in and they moved in seamlessly and happily. So, when I came back from the Olympics, they were already living with us. Then, they have since moved on and graduated high school and now are enrolled in a community college across the river on the east side and living closer to school, and from what I understand and know with the limited amount of conversation, but through texting, we stay in contact and things are going well. They got drivers license, they're going to school, they have summer jobs as camp counselors. So, it was a really rewarding process. They moved out a few months before New York, so, like, over the late summer. So, when I started to go do my high altitude training, they had already moved out. But that was an amazing experience.
Shalene: My husband and I say, like, "We could do foster care for the rest of our lives." We really enjoyed our time with the girls and we could envision helping more children, and So, we've had the discussion of adoption for quite a long time actually. I think a lot of people think, "Well, oh, it's because she only wants to continue running. So, she doesn't want to take the time to actually get pregnant and have a child," and that's not actually the case. I've always wanted to adopt. It doesn't mean we wouldn't have our own children as well, but that has always interested me, and so, we're aggressively pursuing that. It's not an easy process. It's really overwhelming actually.
Sarah: I bet.
Shalene: So, it's gathering a lot of information and resources, but at the same time, it shouldn't be easy. You shouldn't be able to just get a child.
Sarah: Right. Right.
Shalene: So, it should be hard. But yeah. So, I think I've been vocal in sharing that because I guess I'm hopeful that there's potentially some woman or parents out there that are in a precarious situation and maybe they hear of me wanting to adopt and maybe the stars align and I'm able to adopt a child just through of mouth. I don't know. We're using an agency and going through DHS here locally in Oregon and going through a lot of avenues to adopt, but who knows who's out there and potentially in a situation that I could be helpful.
Sarah: Are you looking to adopt a newborn or ... Because it said a child,-
Sarah: ... So, to me that didn't say baby.
Shalene: Actually, yeah, I think our first choice would be an infant. I think we want to go through the tough times, not just the easy times.
Sarah: There are no easy times.
Shalene: I know.
Ellison: I was going to [crosstalk 00:03:30]-
Shalene: Yeah. No, that's true. There's always just different stages. My sister just, in fact, gave birth to a healthy boy in late July, So, she is very sleep deprived right now, and So, it's been interesting to watch her go through motherhood and the highs and lows. I think I just ... We want that experience, too. We want to earn our stripes as parents. So, yeah.
Sarah: Yeah. Nice.
Ellison: Well, your career has been So, long and your bronze metal, which has now been upgraded to silver in the 2008 Beijing Olympics in the 10,000 meters. It must seem like another lifetime ago. Are you able to cast your mind back to what it felt like to step up from the 10,000 meters to a marathon roadways?
Shalene: Yeah. So, 2008 was when I was a track runner and had that Olympic metal, but I knew that that was one of those moments that, "It's going to be hard to top that." I ran as fast as I ever had and I got an Olympic medal, So, I was looking, "Well, what's the next challenge, something to strive for?" and that was the marathon. So, I worked for two years after that Beijing Olympics to callusing myself and becoming a marathoner, and it was really hard and difficult and tiring, but really happy I did it and debuted in New York in 2010. It went well enough that I thought, "Okay. I want to pursue this and see if I can become an Olympian at that distance as well."
Sarah: So, everyone was thrilled by your announcement that you're going to be returning to New York to defend your title at the New York City Marathon. So, from some anecdotes in that recent New York Times profile, it sounds like you might be in the best shape of your life.
Shalene: Well, I don't know if I'm in the best shape. I haven't, like ... I don't really know, but I'm in good shape. I've been working this summer on getting back some of my speed and turning my legs over. So, when Lindsey had visited, the New York Times reporter, she watched me do a speed workout, and I think she could tell I was excited because I was running with younger teammates, literally like a decade younger, and chasing them around the track and they pulled me to some faster splits for a speed workout than I had seen in probably a decade. So, that's just a good sign that even though I'm 37, I'm still running similar times to when I'm 27, and So, that can only bode well for the marathon for me because there's, naturally, as you age, a decay of speed. So, for me to work on that and to actually get that back is a good sign. So, yeah.
Sarah: Nice. Nice.
Ellison: Well, you mentioned your debut and the 2010 New York City Marathon, and you finished second place in a time of 2:28:40. Now, that was the best New York City finish for an American woman in 20 years. So, now, given what happened last year, do you see that 2010 raises a foreshadowing?
Shalene: I don't know. I think the New York course agrees with me. There's something about the city that feels magical. When I land, I just get this great feeling. It's just, like, a connection, and I can't explain it. It just is there. It's like whether you're attracted to someone or not and it's like there's that chemistry that I have with New York and I think it's just a good fit for me. So, yeah, when I ran in 2010, I knew that I loved my experience and I thought the course suited me well. I'd heard horror stories, like, "New York is So, difficult, So, challenging. The hills, the bridges, the win," and when I ran it, I was like, "That wasn't that bad. I really liked it." Then, the same thing again last year. I'm like, "I don't know what it is. I really like that course." So, I hope I have the same type of positive experience again this fall. Yeah. Who knows what's possible. It'd be fun to run, potentially, really fast this time, like really fast.
Ellison: Yeah, because last year, when you all went at "slower," than ... People say the pace was slower in the beginning.
Shalene: Yeah. So, the best way to run a marathon is to do what they say a negative split. So, the first half of the race is slower than the second half. So, that's a better way to run it and, also, you feel better and you'd get a better result. So, yeah, it was a slower pace where it really kept the group of women and athletes really together for a long amount of time, and then when it got going, it got really violent really quickly and it was really fast. But yeah, it was a nice negative split.
Sarah: I'm intrigued. You used the word "Violent."
Shalene: Yeah. I call it ... When paces get really uncomfortable, I call it violent.
Sarah: Nice. Nice.
Ellison: That's cool. I'm going to borrow that.
Sarah: Exactly. Yeah, exactly right. Right. Okay. So, talking about the New York course. So, let's get into the weeds for a bit with some astonishing, hella impressive stats laid out on your Wikipedia page. So, at New York last year, your average pace from 35 kilometers to the finish line, which over the course, averages a slight uphill, was 3:11.4 per kilometer, which is faster than the women's only marathon world record pace of 3:14.8 kilometers. So, how did you achieve that incredibly strong finish and what was going through your mind as you were doing it?
Shalene: That's really nice that you looked that up because I love geeks stats like that.
Sarah: Oh, good.
Shalene: I really appreciate that because that's, like, one of the fastest closes in history of American women's marathoning. So, it's like I'm really proud of that body of work, and not many people, besides really geeky people, would know that and look that up. So, I really appreciate that, that you looked that up. Yeah, I mean, I guess it goes back to my track background and I visualized that moment and what it was going to take. My coach said, "You've got to be able to run, in terms of mile pace, like five oh something, 5:08s, 5:05s. You need to just throw down because you're running against Mary Keitany who is the world record holder in the women's only marathon right now with a 2:17, So, you've got to close hard and fast when you go."
Shalene: So, I prepared here in Portland out on Sauvie Island, visualizing, running against the best in the world coming from Kenya to race. So, what I did in that last like 10k and to achieve those splits, obviously, it was a lot of training and a body of work over a lifetime, ut when I was in New York City, I was visualizing my training here in Portland on Sauvie and just thinking, "Okay. It's just like practice. I'm going to throw down five minute miles and that's what it's going to take." Thankfully, it did pan out, but yeah, it was like I was running scared because I knew that that's what it was going to have to take to beat Mary Keitany.
Sarah: Were you by yourself out there on Sauvie-
Sarah: ... or did you bring some of your teammates out there?
Shalene: No, my coach is usually on the bike.
Sarah: Yeah. I knew you weren't literally by-
Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shalene: Then, sometimes my teammates, like Amy Cragg who lives here, she would come out to a few of my workouts and cheer me on, and then her husband, sometimes, would actually come out and run with me and pace me for little chunks of the workout. Sometimes, he couldn't hang, it was too fast, but yeah.
Sarah: Humble brag.
Shalene: Yeah. Yeah. He's only, like, a three-time Olympian or something like that, but he's very kind to help us. Yeah.
Sarah: Nice. Nice.
Ellison: Well, us mother runners love a good best running friend or, as we call it, the BRF, and I need to have a shout out to mine, Monica Hunsberger who broke my running heart in 2010 by moving to Gatlinburg, Sweden. But anyway, it seems like a lot of your success, you've attributed to the training partners you've recruited to run with you here in the Portland area. Talk to us about what workouts with The Bowerman Babes, as you call them, mean to you both physically and emotionally.
Shalene: Yeah. I think the sport can be lonely if you opt for that avenue, but I've found that in order to sustain my excitement level and my passion for what I do, I need to be surrounded by other women for a variety of reasons. The comradery, the accountability, the high level of standards that we set every day, like-minded in the sense that we want to achieve greatness, and So, just having people push me every day, I enjoy that. If I trained alone, I could think, "I'm doing a great job. I'm kicking butt," but then the reality of getting to a race and like, "Oh, no. I'm really not." So, being confronted by the world's best every day is, I find, a way to get better, but then on top of it, I just enjoy it more. I've told my coach So, many times if he didn't bring on the women in these last three years, I easily would've been retired, like, four years ago.
Sarah: Oh, wow.
Shalene: I love running, but I think I've come to a stage in my life where I love it because of what men would describe in football is the locker room comradery. It's the same thing with my team. I have this locker room comradery, and what I'm going to miss the most when I step away from competitive running is that, is the women and being with them day in and day out and going through the highs and lows of running and injuries and really incredible moments of fulfilling a dream. I'm going to miss that the most, for sure, and the people and the relationships that I've formed. So, they are a vital component to my success, not just literally because they're physically running next to me, but just the emotional support. I mean we're in each other's lives on So, many levels that it's really enhanced everything that I do.
Ellison: Yeah. You had mentioned Amy Cragg, and So, we all think back to the 2016 Olympic trials and that ... I get verklempt a little bit thinking about that. By the way, I was standing in front of my television and solid tears when you won in New York. Okay. Get a hold of yourself, Ellison. But that I thought was the Olympic trials in 2016 was such a testament to both of your hard work but alSo, your friendship.
Shalene: Yeah, I think that ... Wow. That moment, I can never repay Amy for helping me, but I think it's one of those moments where I've done various things for other women and that was my moment to claim back some of those efforts. Their support showing me in that moment was incredible. Amy's one of the kindest, sweetest people you've ever met, So, it doesn't surprise me that she would do something So, selfless to help me out. So, that is probably one of my favorite memories. Even though it was, like, one of the more painful things I've ever been through, it was one of my favorite memories that I'll have in my career is someone being So, selfless like that.
Ellison: It was just So, gracious and it was So, beautiful to watch. I mean, it was just something that I think you don't really see in men's sports, that-
Shalene: Probably not as much.
Ellison: Right. Right.
Sarah: Okay. So, enough with this running stuff. Let's move on to F-O-O-D. So, you famously said, " ... yeah," as you cruise toward the finish line at last year's New York City marathon. What do you exclaim when you nail a super tasty dish like the Bison Chili or brown rice risotto with mushroom and peas in your new cookbook?
Shalene: Well, I think the "F yes," still applies but maybe an "Mm, yeah." Maybe that's it.
Sarah: Because you showed us what you're making tomorrow night. Tell us about that dish.
Shalene: Yeah, it's a slow cooker dish that Elise came up with while she was recovering from having her son, Rylin, and it's got lentils. It's a really good source of iron, basically, because her iron levels dropped. So, it has beef and lentils and kale and a bunch of veggies, but a really great slow cooker meal. So, I'm going to make that because I head to New York next week for some more book promo, and So, I'm going to leave my husband with a big batch of food.
Sarah: You do not have to do that. You do not have to [crosstalk 00:16:05]-
Shalene: I don't have to, but I'm going to because otherwise it gets really scrappy around here. I don't want him eating the cat.
Sarah: But you've got nothing better to be doing.
Ellison: Well, I'm looking over Run Fast, Cook Fast, Eat Slow. It sure looks like you and Elise paid attention to feedback from fans on what they loved from your earlier cookbook and wanted more of now, like serving up ... You've got three variations of the super popular Superhero Muffins and then one of my favorites, Can't Beat me Smoothie, now comes in 2.0. Were comments from social media and in-person events on your mind when the two of you worked on this new book?
Shalene: Absolutely. When we created Run Fast, Eat Slow, we didn't envision ever having a second cookbook. We were just like, "This is it. We won't do another one," but then when we were on tour, we had people giving us So, much great feedback while we were traveling around the country and So, many ideas that we just started writing them down, and our agent just said, "You know what? You guys should just take notes and just see. Maybe there's enough to materialize into another book," and we're like, "Nah, we don't really think so, but okay."
Shalene: So, we took a ton of notes between the two of us nonstop on tour and just listened to what our fans wanted, and we just heard from our fans that they were busy, they wanted to eat healthy, usually parents who are working, students, grad students that were on a tight budget or even high school students that were wanting to eat healthy, but didn't have the time or their parents didn't have the time. So, it was this time crunch, but want to eat healthy lifestyle. That, at times, for Elise and I is very relatable. There were just moments where we want a quick fix, but we want it to be healthy. We don't want to be eating junk. So, that's how this cookbook came to be. It was just listening to what they wanted and what their lifestyles were like, and so, "How can we accommodate and create a book that is going to fit everyone's needs?"
Ellison: So, is it just our impression or is there way more advice in this followup cookbook, sort of like a Run Fast, Eat Slow ethos plus more running and fitness pointers?
Shalene: Absolutely. That, too, was also on the topic of discussion was just like, "Well, Shalene, we want to know what stretches you do," or, "What are you thinking about when you're lining up to race," or, "Elise, how are you managing being a working mom with two kids," and just people want to know more about our life a little bit more, So, we wanted to give them a glimpse into like, "Well, this is how we live our lifestyle. Maybe this can help you. Maybe it doesn't apply," but we just felt like we wanted to give a little bit more of ourselves into this book So, that people could really get to know us and what makes us tick. Then, yeah, there's just a lot of advice.
Shalene: One thing that we were both really passionate about that we wanted to address head on was eating disorders because that is definitely an issue in the running world. We witnessed it firsthand in high school and in college. At the elite level, you don't really notice it because to get to the elite level, you just can't undernourish in that way otherwise you'll get injured and you won't make it. So, it was definitely more in the college aspect, and we feel that this can be a great tool for college coaches and college athletes and high school kids. It really helps. We've gotten So, much ... So, many emails and letters that are ... make us cry. The feedback that we get of how it's helping someone overcome an unhealthy relationship with food, it was top priority.
Shalene: So, that's what I'm most proud of in this book is addressing that issue head on. I even disclosed how, at various times in my career, I felt like I had to count calories because I had to be light and lean to compete with the best in the world. It becomes this obsessive, negative mental space and you look at food not as fuel, you're looking at it as something negative, and So, we wanted to reverse that. I think when Elise and I just started discussing about the cookbook, she's like, "Shalene, you should not be counting calories." I'm like, "What? But yeah, I have to," and she's like, "No, just stop. Abandon it."
Shalene: That's why we don't have any calorie counts or fat counts or grams of this, grams of that, because when you go to pick up an apple, there's not a calorie count on an apple, right? You just eat the apple and you know it's going to be good for you. So, we're trying to just get people to stop obsessing about calorie counts and that the most important thing is how you're feeling and then worry about the splits on your watch, worry about the amount of miles you're putting in and just make sure you're feeling good, and the rest is going to follow.
Ellison: So, talking about the dishes, what are some of personal favorites, especially, say, on your highest mileage weeks or even when you're in the taper?
Shalene: Yeah, I think I'm most emotionally attached to the Thai Quinoa Salad because it was the first recipe I tested out of this cookbook and it was right after I'd found out that I had a fracture in my low back and had to pull out of the Boston Marathon. So, I drove out to Ben to meet up with Elise and our cookbook assistant and get started on this book, and it was the first recipe we created, and I fell in love with it, and I ate it. I was addicted to it and ate it, like, once a week, a couple of times a week leading up through New York and even the week of New York. So, it's like I have this emotional attachment because it gave me this turn of events of being hopeful and passionate about my next project, which was this. When I had a moment of athletic bomber news, it really helped me turn that corner and feel positive about something. So, that's my emotionally attached to recipe. I love ... The peanut butter cups is like a dessert.
Ellison: That's on my list.
Shalene: Kids love it. My recipe, tested it with my coach's daughter who is in high school and she goes to Jesuit here, she's a senior and a great little runner, and So, I love that one just because it's kid-friendly and easy. Then, I love some of our hearty soups just because, as you know, cold, rainy, Portland winter months, I love having a good soup ready to go. The Superfood Soup is one of my favorites, but I mean, there's So, many.
Ellison: Run Fast, Cook Fast, Eat Slow has So, many great smack recipes, both savory and sweet. You already mentioned the peanut butter cups. Are there any that you pack and take with you when traveling to races or to promotional events?
Shalene: Yes. What's great is usually when Elise and I travel together, she's always making a lot of these goodies,-
Shalene: ... which is So, nice.
Ellison: [crosstalk 00:22:54].
Shalene: Yeah. She knows I get really ... It's true, I get hangry, and we both do. There's a great trail mix in here that has pretzels and a bunch of nuts and good seasoning that's kind of roasted. So, she'll pack little baggies full of that. Our muffins, obviously, travel great and travel well, the three different versions. She made the apple carrot ones the other day while I was in Ben. I alSo, love the breakfast cookies. I don't know if you guys have tried those.
Ellison: Yes. Yes.
Shalene: The sweet potato one's in the first book, but then we have a new version with banana and coconut in this one. So, those travel well. Yeah. Then, obviously, some of those sweet treats, like the peanut butter cups and stuff like that, but those are some of my favorites. Yeah.
Ellison: Well, you and Elise have really, really built a movement and a loyal following with Run Fast, Eat Slow and we know you're going to be gaining more fans with this cookbook. So, where do you see this all going? Nutrition retreats? More books? A TV show?
Shalene: I don't know. I'll have to talk to Elise. I think we try to focus on one thing at a time, but this is a labor of love. It's a lot of work creating a cookbook. I mean, all books are, but recipe testing is quite arduous and time consuming. So, I think we're going to let this soak in. I think she wants to focus on her kids for a while and really make sure she's present, and they're just ... You know, with having two kids now, it's a little hectic over there. Then, I want an addition in my family, so I think we're going to focus on family for a bit and then see what's next. But I always push Elise that I think she should create a cookbook for infants and what you feed infants and what's good for mothers and infants, but that's my idea that I think she should write next.
Ellison: You'll be her agent.
Shalene: Yes, basically. I'm like, "You'd be great at this. You should do it." But yeah, it's easy to sit here on my couch and talk about, but ... Yeah, I don't know where it's going to take us. I think Elise has definitely built such a great platform to help people with her nutrition background that I can see her taking it to another level and trying to reach a lot of young athletes and help them. I'm not sure what platform, maybe through our website, maybe the Facebook live, so she can do some coaching for people from all over the country. But I think that would be a great avenue for her, for sure.
Ellison: Now, because of you stepping up or announcing that you're going to be doing in New York, does that mean that ... I know the Portland event was postponed until November, so it sounds like you would have a very limited number of promotional events before New York. Then, is there going to be a slightly bigger tour post-New York? Your victory lap.
Shalene: Yeah. Yeah. That's to be determined. We definitely wanted to make sure the Portland event was going to be really special, so that's why we deleted because we weren't getting the venue that we really wanted. So, that's why we wanted to change things and just wait and make sure it's done really well, but we'd love to collaborate and combine the two foodie worlds and athletic worlds. So, we want more and want it to be more special, so that's why we're waiting to do it in November. But yeah, I actually have to train for New York, so it limits where ... how much time and energy because it kind of zaps me when we do a lot of traveling-
Ellison: Oh, sure.
Shalene: ... and it's just harder on me if I'm not getting enough sleep. Elise makes fun of me because I am ... I get a lot of sleep and she's, like, sleep deprived and she's like, "Come on. Can't you function?" I'm like, "But I'm running, like, over a hundred miles a week. It's a little bit ..." We're both tired,-
Ellison: You just got to [crosstalk 00:26:36]-
Shalene: ... but just different.
Sarah: And it's a little hard to feel sorry for, "Oh, ... you got nine hours, solid, uninterrupted. Oh, your cat jumped on your bed?"
Shalene: Yeah, exactly. So, we both are working really hard at doing the best possible jobs outside of ... with the cookbook. So, we're just making sure whatever we do, we do it really well, so that's why it's limited. Then, we'll have further discussion after New York, but for sure, we'll have a Portland event in November after New York.
Sarah: Good. Good, good, good. Okay. So, as Ellison said, we love BRFs, but another thing we love around Another Mother Runner parts are TMI topics. So, I would be sorely remiss if I didn't ask about the bathroom break at Boston this year. I mean, come on, you even set speed records when you use a porta potty under 14 seconds. How do you get the job done?
Ellison: First, I want to know who was timing that?
Sarah: Some guy on ... I don't know where I saw this. This was ... I don't ... Oh, I guess I clicked on something and some guy on Twitter, I guess, was following the live feed and he timed it. So, it was 13.86 in case you don't know that.
Shalene: It's pretty impressive. That's pretty impressive.
Sarah: It is very impressive, woman, because ... Okay. So, E and I were talking around outside, and I'm just going to just say it out loud, we think you just pulled your shorts to the side.
Sarah: Yes. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. You didn't pull down because-
Shalene: I didn't pull them down.
Sarah: Yeah, because pulling ... I mean, your hands must have been cold,-
Sarah: ... your-
Shalene: Body's all wet.
Sarah: ... bun-huggers were wet because it was raining, so it would have taken you longer just to peel it down and peel it back up.
Shalene: Totally. Totally.
Shalene: You nailed it.
Sarah: All right. Okay.
Ellison: We spent more time talking about it than you spent doing it.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, did you just think about just peeing on the fly?
Shalene: I did, but I have never been able to do that, unfortunately. I know that people ... You would think I would be able to, but I just couldn't.
Sarah: Okay. Because I'm known for peeing on the fly because-
Ellison: I can't.
Shalene: Yeah, I can't.
Sarah: So, I ... You got to practice it.
Sarah: So, yeah. You're looking at me ... The look on your face is like, "No, you can tell me all this and I'm not going to," but I knew that the first time I was trying to qualify for Boston, a bathroom stop, had kept me from qualifying for Boston. I'm like, I'm not going to do it. So, when the national anthem was being sung here at 2010 Portland and it was pouring rain, I forced myself to because it's hard as an adult to pee while you're wearing clothes because it's hard-wired, you know?
Sarah: So, then it's mile 17 when I had to. I just-
Shalene: Just did.
Sarah: ... peed in my Capris. Yeah.
Sarah: My running partner, who I believe is faster than I am, she stopped at the porta potty and she missed qualifying.
Shalene: Okay. Well, this is a future question for you that you should ask if you have Cara on. She has some stories about teaching herself to pee herself.
Sarah: Oh, good. Okay.
Shalene: You get a heads up.
Shalene: She's good at it. When we train together, she could do it, and I'm like, "I can't do it. I can't do it."
Sarah: Well, I know the Cara has said she has mad props for people, like normal human beings who have to spend four hours out there or something to hold their ... to hold their bladder all that time, you know?
Ellison: I think they just shut down. I'm one of those. I was at ... What ... 3:52 and I just shut down.
Sarah: Yeah. No. Well, it is wet, and so, I wasn't ... Yeah. So, anyway. Yeah.
Shalene: I should have, but I need to learn how because I cannot-
Sarah: I can coach you. Now, that I know the way up here, I can coach you.
Shalene: Part of me was thinking, "God, that porta potty looks so much warmer and even more inviting than being out here."
Sarah: Oh, yeah. [crosstalk 00:30:04]-
Shalene: Part of me was like, "You know what? That porta potty looks nice." That's how bad it was, is that I thought a porta potty looked like a more opportune space to go hang out for 13 seconds.
Sarah: All the wind, [crosstalk 00:30:15]-
Shalene: That's how I felt about that.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But you didn't have ... But you obviously didn't debate long about whether to stay in there or not.
Shalene: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I know. Should have longer.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, if you need any, I can coach you.
Shalene: Okay. Thank you.
Sarah: I'm still here. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking time out of, I know, a very busy schedule to talk with us. So, thank you.
Shalene: Oh, yeah. No. Thank you for coming.
Sarah: Yeah. Good luck with the book. I just know that it's just going to sell like hotcakes or like breakfast cookies with our crowd.
Ellison: And good luck in New York.
Shalene: Oh, yeah. Thank you.
Ellison: Make me cry again.
Shalene: Yeah. In a good way.
Sarah: Happy tears. Happy tears.
Ellison: Happy tears. That's right.
Shalene: That would be lovely. I would love that.